Photographic memory
September 10, 2008 Geek stuff, Specialist projects, WebsitesBack in April I mentioned that we had very gently gone live with the
Database of 19th Century Photographers and Allied Trades in London 1841-1901 on the photoLondon website. It seems like a good time for an update for a couple of reasons.
Firstly, the site has proved to be quite a success, at least compared with our modest expectations. Actual visits and pageviews have only crept up gradually since the launch, albeit with a few great flurries of activity. We get around 3000 visits a month and people tend to look at 7 or 8 pages per visit. But user reaction has been growing inexorably, with more people contacting us through the website every week as they find their ancestors or seek the photographer of a photo they own. I think that Google is sending a lot more of our visits now, which means people with very specific interests and questions – which you should probably expect with a database of 10,000 people! Still I don’t think we were expecting quite so many inquiries, and it’s often hard to offer more than is already on the site. Tunjay, who is the administrator in our Later Department, does everything possible to give a helpful answer, but the fact is that we at the Museum of London aren’t the source of or experts about the data; that role belongs to David Webb, whose many years of research he generously contributed to the database.
The second reason for an update is that we were contacted while ago by the production team of a TV programme that’s due to air very shortly, and which just might feature the website, since it helped in researching the family history that the programme explores. I don’t know if it will actually be mentioned, but it would be nice validation of David Webb’s work if it was.
Both of these illustrate that family history and genealogy are a very important part of the reason that a site like this is interesting to a wide audience. Soon after the launch, as we started to get inquiries from family historians, I ventured onto their turf to ask in a couple of forums what we could do to make a site like this useful to them. The answer was basically “not a lot, it’s already what we need”; that’s gratifying, but I suspect there’s always more we could do. One thing might be to offer downloadable datasets; another (perhaps less for the benefit of genealogists) could be to integrate the biographies with related resources on photography, geography, social history, archive collections etc.
As well as inquries, there is another kind of contact we get through the site, where people write to add to or correct our information, and this is really exciting. Again, we pass the information on to David Webb for him to examine and process as he sees fit. So far, because of this roundabout flow of information, we have not re-integrated any information, but I would hope to do this in the future so if you have any amendments for us, please, please keep on sending them.
One final thing: I created a simple REST API for those geeks out there who want to play with the database. Sadly the quality of the address data isn’t that brilliant at present, which limits what we can do in terms of mashups until I get a chance to crunch it a bit, but if you want to play then please drop me a line and I’ll give you the keys.
So to wrap up, I would love to know your suggestions for how we might improve the site. Tell us things like
- what sort of information do you need that’s not obvious at present?
- would you like any tools to collect or download information?
- would it be useful to integrate a wiki with the site, so that each person can have a page that our site’s visitors can add to and edit?
Stick your ideas in the comments or drop us a line.
Jeremy :
Date: September 19, 2008 @ 1:14 pm
A quick update: Who Do You Think You Are featuring David Suchet aired this week, and very interesting it was. In the end the Database of 19th Century Photographers… didn’t feature, but David Webb did, and that’s only right: he’s the source of all this info. Nevertheless we have had a lot of visits from people following up Suchet’s ancestor, Arnold Jarchy. How many were then tempted to explore other lives? Well, a lot, averaging over 5 pages per visit. Hopefully they found something of interest along the way. But please, let us know what we should do better! Thanks
Susan :
Date: December 1, 2008 @ 6:33 pm
Hi. I’ve tried twice to send you a message on your Contact Us page, but both times it appeared to fail. Can you help, please? Thanks
Brett Lloyd Payne :
Date: February 15, 2009 @ 11:53 pm
Hi. I found the site a goldmine of information. I was able to date a whole range of photos stored here:
http://s511.photobucket.com/albums/s355/blplpa/Payne%20Family%20Tree/ with the information you had gathered. For research purposes, is there a value to having an example front and back image of the plates, or do you feel that this is done elese where? But thanks for your efforts. Very helpful.
jeremyottevanger :
Date: February 23, 2009 @ 9:08 am
Many thanks, Brett. What a great set of photographs you have there, and I can see how the PhotoLondon data could be pretty handy in dating them and understanding their context. It really is very gratifying to hear when we’ve been useful.
I’m afraid I’m personally unqualified to answer your query, being but a programmer with a lay interest in the subject, but I’ll ask our curator of photography for his thoughts.
I hope that before too long we may be able to include in the site answers to more questions like this. Keep an eye on us!
Thanks again, Jeremy
Phyllis :
Date: March 3, 2009 @ 12:57 am
What a fantastic site. I have been able to date within a reasonable time scale over 30 photos of the Harmer family some over 100 years old. If only the rest of the country were that easy date. Now if I can find living relatives, we can share the photo’s. Once again thanks
Felina :
Date: March 4, 2009 @ 2:58 pm
As I understand it PhotoLondon was originally a massive site and what you have now is just one item. Will you be putting that former conent back on to the site?
jeremyottevanger :
Date: March 6, 2009 @ 12:54 pm
Hi Felina. Sorry that the database doesn’t hit the spot for you – it’s s pretty big resource, but as you say there was previously other information on the PhotoLondon website (up until about a year ago). That old content may become available again, and your interest in it has been registered – was there any particular part of it that you wanted to see again?
There are various possibilities for how we could provide the service of informing people about the photographic history of London, but to be frank it’s the question of resources that limits us. This is partly why I’m keen to see how we can build around the database, which in the space of a typical month provokes more responses and queries than the old site did in six years. If we can build around it some of the content that used to be on the site perhaps it can be still more useful. What do you think?
Thanks for your input, Jeremy
jeremyottevanger :
Date: March 6, 2009 @ 12:59 pm
Phyllis, thanks for the compliments, I’m really pleased the site helped. I put together a “custom search engine” here which searches across a few sites I found that concern photographic history. You may find it helps, or you may already have seen all this stuff! There are some good sites out there, though, and if you know of more them post them here and I’ll put them in the search engine too.
All the best, Jeremy
Maggie Johns :
Date: March 19, 2009 @ 9:50 am
I am not sure if ‘Crouch End’ would be covered by London photographers, but I have an ancestor, W.E. Sorrell (William Edwin Sorrell b. 1856, d. abt. 1933) who had a photographic studio at 55 Topsfield Parade, Crouch End, at the end of the 19th century. He was stated to have photographed the then Princess of Wales and Prince John. He later emigrated to New Zealand where he also set up a photography business.
Best wishes, Maggie
ELIZABETH AUSTEN HART :
Date: April 12, 2009 @ 8:29 pm
MY GREAT GRANDFATHER WAS LISTED IN PHOTOLONDON. THERE WAS AN ERROR IN HIS BIOGRAPHY. HIS NAME WAS GEORGE WILLIAM AUSTEN BORN IN BIRMINGHAM in 1849 THE ERROR WAS HIS DEATH DATE AND PLACE. GEORGE WILLIAM IMMIGRATED TO THE UNITED STATES IN 1906 WITH HIS FAMILY AND LIVED IN ARIZONA HIS LAST YEARS. HE DIED IN 1923. THIS INFORMATION CAN BE VERIFIED BY ME AND IN THE US CENSUS. HE DID CONTINUE TO PAINT PORTRAITS
Vivienne Tucker-Whitehead :
Date: April 28, 2009 @ 10:12 pm
I looked at PhotoLondon last year and found lots of my family BUT most of the information was inaccurate.
When I get all my information sorted I will send it so that it can be updated.
Philip Johnson :
Date: November 7, 2009 @ 1:28 am
NEWMAN, George Philip Harry
My grandfather. I can add and correct some stats you have on him.
His birth certificate does not include the name Philip. His father however, was Philip Harry Newman, London artist.
George died 30 Oct. 1920, North Battleford, Saskatchewan. He and his second wife, Kate (Scholfield) and four children had emigrated to Canada in 1907 on board the Empress of Ireland and took out homestead land at Glenbush Saskatchewan.
Terence David Wilkins :
Date: November 7, 2009 @ 8:44 pm
The PhotoLondon database is very helpful. To add some information. The photographer listed as Frederick William Wood as the successor to Elliot and Fry also operated from 408 Edgware Road. The business was named The Fine Art Studio. The Percival Studio is also listed. I have a photo from it dated 1890 which falls within the brief operating dates.
Glenn Edy :
Date: November 9, 2009 @ 9:50 pm
Extremely useful website for those of us with an interest in 19th Century London photography. I would, however, like to a correct the gender of Nicola Cassinello, who is described as a ’sister’ to George Cassinello on the website. Nicola can be a man’s name in Italy, and it is so here. If Nicola was a sibling to George Cassinello, then he was definitely his brother, not his sister.
Mary Kendall :
Date: December 8, 2009 @ 1:48 am
I have been trying to find additional information on my great great grandfather, Frank Herbert, artist/portrait painter for some time. I reached your site using the Altavista search engine on my new laptop which uses Vista. This may be irrelevant but I can’t find it on my windows desktop using either Altavista or my usual search engines – google or yahoo so perhaps a lot of people are missing out.
Do you have any additional information apart from the brief outlines mentioned in the Biography?
Irene Cooke :
Date: December 10, 2009 @ 4:47 pm
Hello, I AM PLEADING, to Terence David Wilkins (7th Nov.2009) to contact me.
You may be my last resort to trace an ancestor – Frederick William Wood.
Please contact me.
jandi.landseer@tiscali.co.uk
Tony Williams :
Date: December 14, 2009 @ 9:56 am
I have searched with no success for a specialist/restorer who can get me prints from two 1856 daguerrotypes and several stereoscopic glass plates from WWI.
Oxford/London area. Can you help please? Many thanks Tony Williams
Terence David Wilkins :
Date: December 14, 2009 @ 6:46 pm
Sorry i did not follow up Terry
Cath Stanton :
Date: December 17, 2009 @ 6:00 pm
Dear Tony,
Jeremy forwarded your request to me as a colleague at the Museum of London. The Senior Curator of Photographs has told me that the daguerreotypes are best copied using a camera on a copy stand with positionally-adjustable lights. The plates can probably be scanned on a flatbed.
He has suggested that you try Metro in Clerkenwell.
Best of luck,
Cath Stanton
Curator, Images
Terence David Wilkins :
Date: January 6, 2010 @ 12:38 pm
Following me waking up Irene and I have been in contact and I was able to add some information on FW Wood, Terry
Peter Tomlinson :
Date: March 28, 2010 @ 5:18 pm
Sent email with corrections to
Smith Thomas James on the Photo London site, but notice you are still showing the original incorrect information.
Will gladly resubit corrections please advise.
Janet Nicholson :
Date: April 13, 2010 @ 8:56 pm
Marvelous information! I just found an ancestor, thanks to your website and it is full of useful information about him – information we did not have before. Thank you.
D :
Date: April 18, 2010 @ 4:56 pm
Have just seen http://www.photolondon.org.uk/ home page for the first time. Small problem (literally): The text-images used for the links are so SMALL I can’t read them on my high-resolution screen. And I can’t change the resolution because only that resolution is supported for my monitor. In your upgrades, are you planning to make the links readable? Thanks.
Ruth Warner :
Date: June 29, 2010 @ 6:04 am
I have writen to your site but as yet have had no reply. I wish to make a comment. There is an error re Reuben John BOLT. You have that he died in 1901 which is not the case. We have a death certificate for the other Reuben John BOLT who died in 1901 and he was a General Labourer. Your researcher has assumed that the death listed on the Free BMD is Reuben the Photographer. If he had actually viewed the Death Certificate he would have seen it was not the correct one.
Reuben John BOLT the PHOTOGRAPHER is my Ancestor.
Ruth Warner
New Zealand
Peter D Scott :
Date: July 22, 2010 @ 4:42 pm
Hi I am researching my maternal geneology and have found my grandfather listed on your site which is very exiting. He went on to run a photo press agency until the end of WWII , Horace Joseph Hall, and I remember going to Lion Court off Fleet St during the war. It was the Sport & General Press Agency but is now defunct. I wonder if you have any more info or can point me in any direction to find out more in particular about the early part of the centuary because he told tales of taking photos at Balmoral and I presume Edward the VII. Any help would be most exiting
Carolyn Chesler :
Date: July 23, 2010 @ 6:00 pm
I was pleased to find my grandfather’s name in your Index, but it seems you have combined his details with someone else’s. His name was Edward Freeman Norton Collins. You have the correct birth date but incorrect death date and other details. Shall I give you all the rest of the details here, or can I email you separately with these, as that would be easier?
Carolyn
david powell :
Date: August 26, 2010 @ 12:59 pm
I love the site and pop in regularly to check this and that.
The idea of a Wiki is excellent.
To enable people to date their photos from the studio name…some were in existence for decades..it would be useful if scanned images of the studio logo and photo reverse could be added to the artist’s page.These often change according to fashion.Frustratingly enough,very few photos bear the name of the sitter,but some do have dates!
Al in all,a lovely dedicated site.
MKS :
Date: August 26, 2010 @ 2:35 pm
GREAT SITE!THANKS!
Ann O Donovan :
Date: September 16, 2010 @ 2:34 pm
I have a wedding picture of my mother and father which was shows a jproof stamp across the photo I can make out zymo photography, (could be letters in front of zymo as this is at edge of picture) 3 parkway, nw1 ?
telephone gulliver 318?
The picture was taken on 5 November 1952 after they married at st pancras
Any ideas??
All help greatly appreciated
Thanking you
Ann
Martha Swift :
Date: September 29, 2010 @ 3:57 am
I have a very old photograph on the back of which is the name Henry Webber, Kirkdale House, High Road, Leytonstone. Any ideas about dates?
Robert Gray :
Date: November 15, 2010 @ 12:11 pm
You have confused two different people under Charles Stuart Dixon • 1862 – 1925. He had nothing to do with photography and was a paper hanger in Walthamstow.
Charles Stephen Dixon • 1863 – 1900 was a photographer, born in Hackney, Middlesex (His father also Charles was a photographer) and he is the one at 26 St Jude’s Street, Bethnal Green.
I can send you more info if you want to alter current data on your website.
Robert Gray :
Date: November 15, 2010 @ 12:28 pm
Just noticed message from Martha (Sept) re Henry Webber. I am researching photographers in Waltham Forest and have him aged 65 at that address in 1891 as Watch and Clock Maker Shopkeeper. His son Charles E Webber is shown as Photographers Assistant. The son is next shown as a Photographer in Leyton in 1901. Hope that helps?
g hogg :
Date: November 18, 2010 @ 1:38 pm
Having spent many a happy hour in the distant past browsing the photographic collection for street scenes at LMA, I was hoping this site would provide an online alternative, so I am disappointed by the content. Are there plans to include the street collection on the database so that it can be searched just by street name?
Robert Gray :
Date: November 19, 2010 @ 7:07 pm
I dont know if anybody checks your info or updates info? Found another mistake.
Thomas Limbird Sisman • 1836 – 1919
You show him in
1901: photographer living at 37 Broomfield Road, Ealing Dean.
He was in fact resident at
8 Park Road, North Acton, Middlesex
(Registration District: Brentford)
Shown as ‘Lisman’.
Occupation: Commercial Traveller.
1911 he is resident at 11 Daltons Villas, Acton, Middlesex.
Occupation: Builders Clerk(casual).
Hope this helps.
Bilkis Mosoddik :
Date: November 22, 2010 @ 10:58 am
Hi everyone,
Thank you for your comments. Unfortunately, the creator of this website is no longer working for Museum of London and there have not been any updated to the database for a long time.
I am sorry to say that I cannot promise there will be an update in the future as we are currently without any developers and the people who supplied information originally are also unavailable.
I will not be taking down the website at present – but will re-evaluate the situation as soon as we have a web developer in house.
Thank you all for you comments and patience.
Kind regards,
Bilkis Mosoddik.
Robert Gray :
Date: November 23, 2010 @ 2:33 am
Hi Bilkis
Bearing in mind your post, don’t you think you should at least change the two statements “photoLondon is currently redeveloping its web pages” and “You can help us to make this web-site better”. As obviously neither of these are happening?
Bilkis Mosoddik :
Date: November 29, 2010 @ 5:39 pm
Thanks Robert – the website homepage has been updated with new information.
Regards,
Bilkis.
Marcel Safier :
Date: November 5, 2011 @ 2:55 am
Hello all,
David who I met in Swansea in 2005 has done a great job researching the data for this website and although as blog posts point out there are errors and ommisions, for a single person to do what he has done is still a significant achievement. I can understand people’s frustration that update and corrections are not forthcoming.
There are other resources covering London photographers that are actively maintained and I am one of the collaborators on Ron Cosens’ website http://www.cartedevisite.co.uk/ which contains a massive database of photographers for the whole of Great Britain and Ireland. While a fee applies for some data, descendants of photographers are welcome to get in touch and free web pages are offered to host a biography of a photographer ancestor.
I also have extensive data on photographers in the Southern Hemisphere and work with Sandy Barrie and others in Australia and researchers in New Zealand, South Africa and South America and I am delighted to hear from the relations of 19th century photographers active in these countries to share research.
Cheers! Marcel, Brisbane, Australia